Sometimes I just don't know what to believe. I cautiously think our government is wrong on this one -- but cautiously ...
Today is a big day in Honduras. This is election day. If you recall, President Zelaya was kicked out of office and the country by the Honduras Supreme Court on June 28 and replaced by interim leader Ricardo Michelletti. Zelaya is big friends with Venezuela's Chavez and was attempting to change the Honduras Constitution so he got the boot by the Supreme Court (not from Micheletti.)
We went to Honduras and interviewed Micheletti and talked to others off camera to try and get a sense of the issues. Micheletti seems like a good man with good motives. He said he would step down as soon as an election is held and a new president - other than Zelaya - is elected. Micheletti has not sought to put himself on the ballot or remain president. He just saw himself as a caretaker until a democratic election could be held (today.) Even the two men on the ballot have been on the ballot since before June 28 so the election was not the result of the events of June 28. The fact that Micheletti is not seeking to be president after this election is significant to me - it does not look like a power grab.
The United States has taken the side of Zelaya (who has been living in the Brazilian Embassy...and...of course, Brazil just 5 days ago was host to the President of Iran!) No other country has recognized the government of interim leader Micheletti.
Today I read in the NYT that the human rights situation in Honduras has "deteriorated significantly" since the June 28 boot of Zelaya. The article suggests to me that Micheletti is either behind the human rights violations or unable to keep matters sane in the country....neither of the foregoing is good.
I don't know what to believe and wish I could go back to Honduras and report further.
Micheletti seemed like he was doing the right things for his country yet I read in the NYT bad things about him. Does the NYT have it wrong? Is the NYT simply talking to enemies of Micheletti or actually on the ground reporting and looking at the situation and getting it right?
And why is our government backing Zelaya??? is it because that is the right thing to do or is the Obama Administration getting this one wrong? Should we be backing a President who is tight with Chavez and who is violating his own constitution because he was originally democratically elected? Democratic elections are very important...but are there exceptions? Should it make a difference that the Honduras Supreme Court removed Zelaya for taking actions that violated the Honduran Constitution?
And should it matter that Zelaya is currently being protected by Brazil (in their embassy) and that Brazil just hosted the President of Iran which seemed like a snub to us? at a time when we are trying to get Iran to stop their nuclear program???
When you went to Honduras you got the picture....According to the Honduran law Mr. Zelaya was not president anymore when he was captured by militars (not a military coup). NYT is not a reliable paper when it comes to politics, they are with the left here in the US and around thw world. Democracy won in Honduras holding elections and Pepe Lobo will be the next President
I'm a Brazilian and I tell you most of Brazilians are ashamed for Lula's support to Ze-lier and his bandoleros at our Embassy. We don't share the foreign policy this govt is performing, acting as Chavez's puppet, in alignment to Iran, in good relations with Libya and North Korea. What in hell do Lula and his team have in mind? Do they want to restore a kind of Cold War?
You Lost This Argument On The Grounds ofReport
The Constitution of Honduras. It seems the POTUS is always shooting his mouth off that the countries with dictators should be allowed to enrich their countries with nuclear power yet a democracy like Honduras should not follow their own Constitution. What is wrong with this picture?
November 29, 2009 at 3:18______ Pose that question to the Secretary General of the UN. Your anger is misplaced. You are misled. A plot to tie Obama to Chavez?
I have not been able to find information to support that Zelaya followers are in total agreement that the US is “totally” backing their ousted president. To the contrary, what I’m reading is that Washington is behind the Honduras coup by supporting the election. Yes, there was a lot of flip flopping, but even in the beginning it didn’t appear that Zelaya’s people were 100% behind the WH administration. Am I wrong on this??? Here is one excerpt: ********
“The US endorsement of the elections represents the culmination of a policy that has lent political support to the coup regime headed by the Liberal Party leader of the national legislature, Roberto Micheletti, and the Honduran military, even as Washington has given lip service to the principle of restoring the country’s elected president, Manuel Zelaya, to power. In advance of a meeting of the Organization of American States in Washington Monday, the US assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere Affairs, Arturo Valenzuela, sent a letter defending Washington’s position, insisting that Sunday’s elections “are not something invented by the de facto government as a way out or to whitewash the coup.”
The holding of the vote, Valenzuela said, is “consistent with the constitutional mandate to elect the president and congress.”
Greta, I have read the NYT article you mentioned, and found it fair and balanced. The reporter is on the ground, in Tegucigalpa, and she quotes both sides of the dispute, as she should! You, on the other hand, are doing commentary, and as such have obviously jumped on the usurpers' bandwagon - at no time have you interviewed or aired the opinions of anyone from the Zelaya camp. Good for you, but I don't think it's fair to put down other media for keeping the middle of the road.
Greta to be fair and balanced the question should be "why did the UN get it wrong" not whether the US got it wrong!
Thee are some of us in your audience who are thinkers and not sheepees.
I would like to know if the "referendum" which was to be held before the coup erupted was unconstitutional...???? No matter I bet if the result was in Zelaya's favor, the military still would have gone forward with the coup...
I think you were right about Micheletti Greta, Zelaya was trying to set hiumself up as a Dictator...The LAWFULLY elected politicians and Supreme Court had no choice to remove Zelaya and America SHOULD SUPPORT Democratic Institution's in other countries, NOT would-be Dictators! The NYT aren't really a news source anymore, their part of the WH press..and Chavez, Castro, Ortaga, Iran, Brazil really don't like America...Obama should have stood with Michelletti instead of taking away the U.S. Aid!!!
Shame this isn't represented in fact, instead of pulling at emotions. Zelaya broke the law, and the Constitution. Their country wouldn't stand for it. Good for them. Obama jumped in 'stupidly' on the wrong side, as always.
No provision in the Honduran constitution of impeachment as in the USA. All plebiscites must be ordered by the congress. Military cannot detain a setting president; no citizen can be banished to a foreign country. Zeyla was wrong calling a plebiscite, his detainment and expulsion was wrong. Thus, the UN and its members (including the US and Canada) condemned the action; resolution was signed by Ban ki-Moon Secretary General.Chavez and other Latin American leaders on Zeyla’s side, not irrelevant.
The Supreme Court that ordered the expulsion of Zelaya wasn't the Supreme Court in the European sense. The full name is the Supreme Electoral election Court, and its composition is determined by the Parliament, the parties that are confronting Zelaya. The coup leaders are from the military is authorized to regulate elections, not detain elected presidents. When Zelaya unexpectedly won the elections the SCE delayed his installation for a month with technical excuses.(continued)
In Honduras there is the ruling class represented by Micheletti, and the poor class Zeyla The current constitution of Honduras establishes one term of 5 years for Presidents. Zeyla wanted to put on the ballot this November, whether to reform the Constitution. Zelaya finishes his mandate this November; he denies that he wants to run for re- election. No matter what, he couldn't have been re-elected because any reforms would take place after he's out of office.. (Continued)
First of all, I wouldn't believe anything the NYT prints or take it at face value. You interviewed Michelletti, you have good instincts. Go with them.
Second, the fact our government supported Zelaya is a HUGE Red flag, in my mind. The fact is he wanted to usurp the constitution so he could be a forever president, ala Chavez. The fact is Chavez backs Zelaya. It just can't be clearer than that.
TELL*IT*LIKE*IT*IS!, glad we can agree for once. LOL. Personally, I do get politically involved in my state and maintain contact with my DC representatives, but this seems to do no good, anymore. Other than a million citizens marching to DC and kicking out all the bums, literally, I have no clue what to do. I'm open to suggestions, though. LOL.
Comment by Live News "Odd how we, as Americans, too often make judgment calls when it comes to other countries, yet, we sit back like idiots when we observe our own elected officials, trashing our own Constitution. This reminds me of an old Elvis tune, "Clean Up Your own Backyard." We need to tend to our business and allow other countires to tend to theirs." ************************ You and I may or may not agree on many things; however, I totally agree with your comments above. Americans definitely need to tend to our own business (and there is a WHOLE LOT to tend to), and allow other countries to tend to theirs. We do, indeed, need to clean up our own backyard.
I think u should go down again. But first try and get the NYT to provide some details on the basis for their perspective. Two issues here 1. What's going on in Honduras, 2. Veracity of NYT reporting.
Zelaya was lawfully removed by his own country's legal process. Article 239 of the Honduran constitution says, "no citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President." Why is this so difficult for Obama and Clinton to understand?
Odd how we, as Americans, too often make judgment calls when it comes to other countries, yet, we sit back like idiots when we observe our own elected officials, trashing our own Constitution. This reminds me of an old Elvis tune, "Clean Up Your own Backyard." We need to tend to our business and allow other countires to tend to theirs. Besides, no good deed goes unpunished, when the US gets involved, more often than not. I'm ashamed to be among the idiots, also.
Subscribe to Comments
Gladys
When you went to Honduras you got the picture....According to the Honduran law Mr. Zelaya was not president anymore when he was captured by militars (not a military coup). NYT is not a reliable paper when it comes to politics, they are with the left here in the US and around thw world. Democracy won in Honduras holding elections and Pepe Lobo will be the next President
Guga
I'm a Brazilian and I tell you most of Brazilians are ashamed for Lula's support to Ze-lier and his bandoleros at our Embassy. We don't share the foreign policy this govt is performing, acting as Chavez's puppet, in alignment to Iran, in good relations with Libya and North Korea. What in hell do Lula and his team have in mind? Do they want to restore a kind of Cold War?
Fairminded
You Lost This Argument On The Grounds ofReport The Constitution of Honduras. It seems the POTUS is always shooting his mouth off that the countries with dictators should be allowed to enrich their countries with nuclear power yet a democracy like Honduras should not follow their own Constitution. What is wrong with this picture? November 29, 2009 at 3:18______ Pose that question to the Secretary General of the UN. Your anger is misplaced. You are misled. A plot to tie Obama to Chavez?
CSS
I have not been able to find information to support that Zelaya followers are in total agreement that the US is “totally” backing their ousted president. To the contrary, what I’m reading is that Washington is behind the Honduras coup by supporting the election. Yes, there was a lot of flip flopping, but even in the beginning it didn’t appear that Zelaya’s people were 100% behind the WH administration. Am I wrong on this??? Here is one excerpt: ******** “The US endorsement of the elections represents the culmination of a policy that has lent political support to the coup regime headed by the Liberal Party leader of the national legislature, Roberto Micheletti, and the Honduran military, even as Washington has given lip service to the principle of restoring the country’s elected president, Manuel Zelaya, to power. In advance of a meeting of the Organization of American States in Washington Monday, the US assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere Affairs, Arturo Valenzuela, sent a letter defending Washington’s position, insisting that Sunday’s elections “are not something invented by the de facto government as a way out or to whitewash the coup.” The holding of the vote, Valenzuela said, is “consistent with the constitutional mandate to elect the president and congress.”
black cat
Greta, I have read the NYT article you mentioned, and found it fair and balanced. The reporter is on the ground, in Tegucigalpa, and she quotes both sides of the dispute, as she should! You, on the other hand, are doing commentary, and as such have obviously jumped on the usurpers' bandwagon - at no time have you interviewed or aired the opinions of anyone from the Zelaya camp. Good for you, but I don't think it's fair to put down other media for keeping the middle of the road.
Fairminded
Greta to be fair and balanced the question should be "why did the UN get it wrong" not whether the US got it wrong! Thee are some of us in your audience who are thinkers and not sheepees.
Patsy
I would like to know if the "referendum" which was to be held before the coup erupted was unconstitutional...???? No matter I bet if the result was in Zelaya's favor, the military still would have gone forward with the coup...
Carol in MA
I think you were right about Micheletti Greta, Zelaya was trying to set hiumself up as a Dictator...The LAWFULLY elected politicians and Supreme Court had no choice to remove Zelaya and America SHOULD SUPPORT Democratic Institution's in other countries, NOT would-be Dictators! The NYT aren't really a news source anymore, their part of the WH press..and Chavez, Castro, Ortaga, Iran, Brazil really don't like America...Obama should have stood with Michelletti instead of taking away the U.S. Aid!!!
roger 1
Will be interesting to see what happens
Fred
Shame this isn't represented in fact, instead of pulling at emotions. Zelaya broke the law, and the Constitution. Their country wouldn't stand for it. Good for them. Obama jumped in 'stupidly' on the wrong side, as always.
Fairminded
No provision in the Honduran constitution of impeachment as in the USA. All plebiscites must be ordered by the congress. Military cannot detain a setting president; no citizen can be banished to a foreign country. Zeyla was wrong calling a plebiscite, his detainment and expulsion was wrong. Thus, the UN and its members (including the US and Canada) condemned the action; resolution was signed by Ban ki-Moon Secretary General.Chavez and other Latin American leaders on Zeyla’s side, not irrelevant.
Fairminded
The Supreme Court that ordered the expulsion of Zelaya wasn't the Supreme Court in the European sense. The full name is the Supreme Electoral election Court, and its composition is determined by the Parliament, the parties that are confronting Zelaya. The coup leaders are from the military is authorized to regulate elections, not detain elected presidents. When Zelaya unexpectedly won the elections the SCE delayed his installation for a month with technical excuses.(continued)
Fairminded
In Honduras there is the ruling class represented by Micheletti, and the poor class Zeyla The current constitution of Honduras establishes one term of 5 years for Presidents. Zeyla wanted to put on the ballot this November, whether to reform the Constitution. Zelaya finishes his mandate this November; he denies that he wants to run for re- election. No matter what, he couldn't have been re-elected because any reforms would take place after he's out of office.. (Continued)
JCarpenter
First of all, I wouldn't believe anything the NYT prints or take it at face value. You interviewed Michelletti, you have good instincts. Go with them. Second, the fact our government supported Zelaya is a HUGE Red flag, in my mind. The fact is he wanted to usurp the constitution so he could be a forever president, ala Chavez. The fact is Chavez backs Zelaya. It just can't be clearer than that.
Live News
Btw, I wasn't saying Greta is an idiot. I only meant generally speaking, we Americans are idiots. LOL.
Live News
TELL*IT*LIKE*IT*IS!, glad we can agree for once. LOL. Personally, I do get politically involved in my state and maintain contact with my DC representatives, but this seems to do no good, anymore. Other than a million citizens marching to DC and kicking out all the bums, literally, I have no clue what to do. I'm open to suggestions, though. LOL.
TELL*IT*LIKE*IT*IS!
Comment by Live News "Odd how we, as Americans, too often make judgment calls when it comes to other countries, yet, we sit back like idiots when we observe our own elected officials, trashing our own Constitution. This reminds me of an old Elvis tune, "Clean Up Your own Backyard." We need to tend to our business and allow other countires to tend to theirs." ************************ You and I may or may not agree on many things; however, I totally agree with your comments above. Americans definitely need to tend to our own business (and there is a WHOLE LOT to tend to), and allow other countries to tend to theirs. We do, indeed, need to clean up our own backyard.
Chris Somers
I think u should go down again. But first try and get the NYT to provide some details on the basis for their perspective. Two issues here 1. What's going on in Honduras, 2. Veracity of NYT reporting.
Sal
Zelaya was lawfully removed by his own country's legal process. Article 239 of the Honduran constitution says, "no citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President." Why is this so difficult for Obama and Clinton to understand?
Live News
Odd how we, as Americans, too often make judgment calls when it comes to other countries, yet, we sit back like idiots when we observe our own elected officials, trashing our own Constitution. This reminds me of an old Elvis tune, "Clean Up Your own Backyard." We need to tend to our business and allow other countires to tend to theirs. Besides, no good deed goes unpunished, when the US gets involved, more often than not. I'm ashamed to be among the idiots, also.